SIR Podcast
SIR Podcast
Episode 8: Theo Fielding, Progressive
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
SIR Podcast host Tony Cañas (Insurance Nerds) talks with Theo Fielding (Progressive) about the importance of DEI and the value of SIR.
Learn more at www.sirnet.org.
Hello and welcome to the SIR podcast. This is your sleep-deprived and over-the-caffeinary host, Tony Kanyez. Don't know why I keep doing this when the tournament is over, and Iowa State failed at the uh the Cyclones died at the 32 when they were supposed to make it to the 16. Uh and uh today I have with me Theo Fielding, VP of DEI at SIR and senior manager of competitive intelligence at Progressive. Theo, first of all, uh, thank you for joining me today. How's it going?
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you, Tony, for inviting me. Looking forward to it. It's going well. Um everything is going well, so I'm excited about it all. Uh the kids are both in college, is what you said. I have two kids. I have a daughter who's finishing up uh her senior year at the University of Cincinnati right now, and a son who's a freshman down at Florida AM.
SPEAKER_01So are either of them major majoring in risk management and insurance?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. They want nothing to do with anything that's related to uh insurance. Um my daughter ran away from math uh in any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_01I I can't do math and I uh rocket insurance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she's a psych major with early childhood development. My son is an architecture major.
SPEAKER_01Perfect, perfect. All right, all right. So so all right. So so architecture, if if he ends up not loving or burning out, he will always have a job as as a as an architect and engineer's uh uh professional liability underwriter. And your daughter might love psych and she might end up going for a master's to be a therapist, or she might end up in insurance like so many other psych majors, including my girlfriend. Um right, so they just don't know it yet. All right, right, right. Uh so but I I do want to joke that that that Theo, you you failed us since and I say that very tongue-in-cheek, since your kids didn't follow you in insurance, you know what that means, right? You you have you have to help us recruit a couple of other kids to join insurance, right? Um uh so so so Theo.
SPEAKER_00Um Well, real quick, Tony. What to love about it is my wife is in the insurance industry also.
SPEAKER_01And and is uh is she also progressive? No, she's with Humana. SIR. How long have you been involved in SIR? And how did you discover SIR to begin with? I mean, your job definitely is directly related, but how do you discover SIR?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I've been a member of SIR now for five years, a little over five years. And um my role led me towards it. So uh my predecessor in my role was Carol Smith, a very good friend of SIR. Um, and so once I took this job, uh Mike Myers reached out to me almost immediately through LinkedIn uh and introduced me to SIR. And then it was just a matter of I believed in the goals, met some really nice people, uh, and then uh now just fully involved from uh previously being a member and just being the sponsor uh for Progressive, moving to the board and then moving to uh vice president of the DEI committee.
SPEAKER_01When do you take over the DEI committee?
SPEAKER_00It's coming up on two years now.
unknownComing up.
SPEAKER_01Which would put it in so we're in 2026. It would be 2027?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I was I was about to tell you that you are one brave human, but it you're one brave human for having stuck to it, but but you are uh one unlucky human to take any sort of DEI role. We can't talk the DEI today without recognizing that we are living through an anti-DEI political time.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Right? Uh Barry and ML, he seems and they seem to have calmed down a little bit. But as soon as they took power, the first thing they did is clean out the word DEI and 1600 other words from every part of a government they could, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the reality is, Tony, is that uh they've calmed down because the damage has already been done. Uh to come out in the in and swinging uh right out of the gate uh enforcing companies and taking it away from the government platform, uh, it did its damage already, you know, and now the recovery comes maybe uh during the next uh term. Uh maybe, maybe not. But for me, you know, I've always had this passion and always had this interest around it. So it goes way back for me. Um I was certified long before I took this position.
SPEAKER_01Certified. Uh so let me pause it. Then don't talk about certification. But I I do want to say before I forget, I believe it was Martin Luther King or Gandhi. I believe it was Martin Luther King that said the arch, the arc of history bends towards justice. Yes. Uh it it might be slow. Yes. But it but it bends towards justice. And now, if you're anti-DI, you're probably not watching this episode uh uh with a Latino. And uh I'm gonna think, well, yes, you're you're African-American, right? Yes, I am. So I don't want to make assumptions, but uh so so uh if you're anti-SI, you're probably not uh anti-DAI, you're probably not watching this. Uh but but be on the right side of history uh because things will turn, because this is the right thing to do, and it's good for business. The research of the last 20 years has found that DEI is good for business. Companies that that that have more diverse sports do better. Uh right. So so that there's let's let's not uh rehash it. Uh everybody who's watching this probably agrees with us. Uh but uh but your your name will be remembered after the current time, uh when the arc of history does bend back towards justice, uh don't be on the wrong side of history. Uh all right, so so tell me about about the DEI certification because I might be tempted to go get it.
SPEAKER_00So there's a lot of them that have taken place. So when DEI became um, you know, and let me let me rephrase and say, look, we've been doing DEI for a long time. It's gone through different naming conventions and that kind of thing. So then DEI became the label for it. And so as is the normal process, uh colleges started realizing that there was an opportunity to create a certification uh so that professionals can be trained, um, get on a common page with what takes place. So, you know, through LinkedIn again, found a uh I got an offer for University of Southern Florida um to go through a certification process program for DEI. It was, I want to say it was roughly 12 to 16 weeks somewhere in that ballpark. Um, and there were two phases to it. So uh, you know, a low cost to it. Uh once again, I wanted to hear what people are talking about. I wanted to understand uh what makes a successful program, what makes a successful individual in that space, what are the arguments against it, what are the arguments for it, and especially from the perspective of being a researcher and being an analyst. I'm always going to uh, you know, lie on the interpretation with using facts and using research to land somewhere. And so the certification just became another uh feather in my cap, you know, something to add to the resume. It wasn't that I was going to shift what I was doing for progressive or anybody else. I just thought it was a great way to learn some things, develop myself, and get to that point. So uh, and now there are major colleges uh that are offering certifications. And that's another thing that's probably going to be peeled back. Um, actually offering coursework, uh credit hours, and those types of things for DEI, uh, you'll see those that are government run pull back those programs. They won't have teachers for it, they won't have you know actual classwork for it and that type of thing. Um, so just another impact that we're seeing from the peel from the repeal of DEI as as it's laid as it's labeled. All right.
SPEAKER_01All right, all right. Um yeah, the label has changed for sure, right? We used to call it just diversity, uh, then diversity inclusion, then diversity equity and inclusion. And that that's during my time in the corporate world, which started around 2000 uh around 2006. Now, I spent my first three years in the corporate world, the first three and a half years in a trucking company in Des Moines, Iowa. You can guess how DI friendly they were, uh, and you would be exactly right. Uh so I I didn't really touch it, I didn't really like get exposed to it until uh 2009, when I joined the insurance industry. And then I got really into it uh starting 2010, uh when or 11, I think I think 11 when when I joined uh or or I created a new chapter of the nationwide uh it was called the Gen Y uh Social Research Group. Uh uh back in the day when all us millennials, I'm an elder millennial, 43. Back in the day, for all those millennials were were the brand new uh dough-eyed, uh bright-eyed kids coming in into the scene. Uh now you know the oldest ones are 43, I'm 43, and the youngest ones are 30-something, and now I have kids 20 years from me for career advice, uh, which is so weird, especially for a guy without kids. Uh and for a guy who was known as the gen y guy for 10 years. Um, but anyway, I realized that uh age is part of diversity, especially in an industry that where the average age tends towards 50. Um and that's how I get involved. Uh and and little by little I started learning about the other uh associate research groups that nationwide, you know, the Black Alliance, the LGBTQ Alliance, et cetera, et cetera. Um then uh I uh started dating a incredible woman. Uh we've been together for 13 years now, and uh she uses a wheelchair. Uh she's a white, blonde, blue-eyed, brilliant, incredibly successful woman who uses a wheelchair. Uh and and and uh as a guy, and as a white identifying guy that can back with short hair and uh normal glasses and dressed in a suit and tie, which I did for most of my insurance career, I could pass for white, short white guy, right? M5'7, I could pass for a short white guy uh with a little bit of an accent. Uh and and so so I never felt the discrimination. I don't know if I was ever discriminated, but I never felt it. Uh but then I uh joined the board of insurer quality, uh, and we received so many stories. And then DI is radically important. Uh it it is if you're a six-foot, if you're my brother-in-law who who is a six foot three, you know, very, very white, blue-eyed, white male, you might not realize it. Now he's liberal, but you you you might never have lived it the life. Because the rest of us live it. Um so so so uh had you been involved uh in the DEI organization within progressive?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, yes, you know, and let me speak to that what you were just talking about first, because the problem with uh the opponents of DEI is that they want to spin the story to say that DEI is a rehash of women's suffrage, a rehash of affirmative action, and directed at making sure that black people get an advantage, that women get an advantage. And to the point of your girlfriend, your you know, your significant other, uh, the education that comes with it is there are so many opportunities to be inclusive. There are so many opportunities to raise awareness and raise equality and raise diversity within your organization and within your your own village, you know, within your own circle. Um that's where the education has to be persistent. It can't just be that DEI means that, you know, 15% of the population is going to be this, 20% of the population is going to be this, and we're worried about the Latino shift and these types of things. The education has to be that everyone faces some sort of discrimination, everyone faces some sort of uh exclusivity, um, and being able to talk through those things is the important piece of it. And so here at you know, here at my company, uh, yeah, I've definitely been involved with it both formally and informally. Uh I've been with Progressive Now for 22 years. Um there's been a lot of opportunity to be involved in discussions. There's been a lot of opportunities to lead discussions, lead committees, committees, be on boards of ERGs. Uh, and once again, the company affords me the ability to be a member of Sir SIR and be active in it. Uh, not just a passive member, but also be a very proactive member of SIR and take on a position that, you know, doesn't interfere necessarily with my day job, but my day job gives me the opportunity to allow me to do what I'm doing today, as a matter of fact. Uh, you know, some companies would say, well, you do that on the weekend or do that in your spare time or something like that. But I think companies that are committed to it, and even in the industry, I mean, as an as the industry that we're in can't avoid the concept of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Your customer base is made up of everyone and everybody.
SPEAKER_01Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
SPEAKER_00And so with that in mind, how can you not promote that within so that the focus is on identifying with your customers, and no matter who your customers are?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think it is very important to speak to the corporate world. And you know, this gets listened to my insurance company, so so does my other podcast. So I'm gonna be very honest. Uh, the corporate world is being cowardly. Not everybody, but the corporate world is being cowardly out of a very rational fear of being targeted by the uh current administration. Uh they their very values have always included for 25 years uh DAI. They have a great DI committee that's a great part of the company, and uh they have a DI certification that I took. Uh shortly after the last election, they neutered the DAI efforts. They uh openly said that the reason was that that uh they do government contracts and they would lose those government contracts uh if uh if they continued openly. They were like inward, we will continue to be right, but outward. So they literally changed the company value, the outraising company value to remove the AI. They painted it in, they had probably hired a consultant who helped them reword it so that they can tell us that it still exists, but it does not look, smell, or whatever, like the AI. Uh, and we will be separating from them uh in the short term uh because they quite clearly uh either did not believe in it, or in this case, more likely, they do believe in it, but they chose fear, they chose money over doing what's right in a company that is incredibly diverse.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think that's the distinction that the consumer needs to understand. Uh the nonprofit space is being hit heavily uh by withdrawing contributions funds to nonprofits that have any uh suggestion of DEI in their mission, in their goals, and their objectives. Now, the cowardly piece is there for those that have no ties to that. You know, so if I'm a company that knows my consumer base, and there's nothing that is going to say, hey, you know what, my my consumer base is really tied to DEI. That's where it becomes a cowardly act if you're pulling away from it. Now, I get it. As a business owner, you want to survive, you want to make sure that you're able to draw the money and not be successful. And you made a very good point because what I've also seen a lot of is okay, outwardly we're not going to display it as a label, but we're not changing how we operate internally. Well, and it's the importance of knowing who your leadership is and what they stand for, you know, and so that's one of the things that when you think about it from the standpoint of SIR, you know, we came out a year ago, Amelia Fitch, who's now the president, uh talked about it. We came out with a statement from SIR supporting standing behind DEI as an initiative, but also as something that we were going to continue to commit to researching, uh, how it benefits carriers, how it benefits solution providers in our industry. And I think that that, you know, as more companies potentially stand up and stay committed to the effort, those that are smaller players in the industry may follow suit. Um, but it's only the big it's only the big players that matter. Uh they're the ones that have to stand up to your point. They're the ones that have to make that statement and that commitment to it. And that's what you know we look at from an SIR standpoint. This month we're recognizing some we're recognizing some leaders at different insurance companies that have made strong commitments to the platform. And so with my committee, that's what we're really focusing on. We're trying to make sure that in the industry itself, we're not shying away from it. You know, we're supporting a lot of the groups like Link, like uh APIW, uh Naya, Laya. We're we're starting to investigate and connect with those groups and being able to support what they're doing to continue to push the effort. And it it's so it's so widespread where there's a need uh to be able to share and talk and have conversations. This will be the second year at the annual conference that the DEI committee has a session that is a general session. And that's where I remember you from last year. You uh in Chicago, you uh sat in on our session where we had the panel discussion. And so we have another one this year centered around age uh and generational differences, uh, and talking about how to, to your point earlier, how to get younger people into the insurance industry and and want to join the insurance industry. Um, but that's a commitment that SIR has made, and we want to push that out to the industry itself. You know, every member of SIR should be listening to the conversations we're having around DEI, and we'll be able, from a research standpoint, to continue to push where the research shows that it's beneficial to the bottom line. It's not just something that is done for the sake of goodwill, it's something that actually affects your bottom line positively, no matter how long.
SPEAKER_01How often do you have the chance of doing the right thing? And and it's good for business. Right, right. Like it is such a no-brainer. It's such a no-brainer.
SPEAKER_00But Tony, you have to believe in it. You know, so if you're a leader that doesn't believe in it or is tied to what has historically been the negativity around it, that's where you know we get back into the bias conversation. That's where your bias dies.
SPEAKER_01Most of the Fortune 500 and the great majority of the CEOs in our industry are white men over 60. Uh I'm not a demographer, but I I did write 1.5 books because I haven't finished the second one. Uh, and I've done an incredible amount of speaking about about demography. Uh I'm not a primary researcher. I bring research about demography into the insurance space and apply it to our world. And I that's how I made my name. Um 60 plus year old white men are boomers, uh, not the Gen C name Boomer, the generational name for baby boomer. Uh they were raised and they got their distance degrees and their MBAs uh in the era of shareholder primacy, where legally, for a public trade company, all that you can think about is the bottom line, right? Now, many insurance companies are mutuals, but some mutuals are not managed like mutuals. Um and mutuals have their own vices. I'd love to have an episode on that, but they have the advantage of not having to manage specifically for profit. Um I I I got my MBA from Iowa State, not a super brand name school, but still like ranked. Um in 2011. Yeah, 2011, uh uh eight through 11. And I got taught the same thing. No, no, by the time I did it, there was a sustainability class and an ethics class. Uh the ethics class was added after Edinburgh and the sustainability class just in the last few years before I took it. Um but yeah, I was taught the same thing, right? So I know what it's like. Um and I've read enough Wall Street Journal, I've read enough Forbes. Um statistically speaking, demographically speaking, for a 60-year-old white white man who has never suffered discrimination, who maybe had a stay-at-home wife, uh, who has always fit into the powerful majority of this country, who started on third base and doesn't even know it. Um the uh the EI is PR is a good way to put it. They might not be. Against it, but it's PR, right? They don't like they're all unlikely to really believe in it. Some of them do. Some of them do. And you know who they are because they show up in the conferences, right? And and the ones that really, really believe keep showing up today, right? Um, and they show up and they know what every guy in in a women insurance conference knows, or every non-black person at um at Naia uh knows, which is show up and shut up, listen, right? I I've done many women insurance conferences, I've done Naia once and a couple of times locally uh in different locations. Uh I am there to listen. So um if you think of the EASPR and a new administration comes in and declares the AI to be heresy and punishable, the logical thing to do is to back away. Exactly. Quite simply, quite simply, right? If you're a true believer and the next generation, this is this is so important for millennials and for Gen Seers. DEI is not PR. They don't particularly care about the fact that it's good for the business. It is quite simply the right thing to do. Right. And you will pay by people changing their insurance, and you will pay by people voting with their feet as employees. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00And we're seeing, you know, not just in our industry, but we're seeing across the board that younger generations definitely want to tie to causes, want to tie to how socially aware and conscious are you versus how much money you make or how great your commercials are, those types of things.
SPEAKER_01And that's where the particular commercials are, my God, we're the worst of that continuous.
SPEAKER_00But that's you know, but that's the key, you know, and as your leadership uh holds on to certain things, uh you see some companies that are starting to fail and starting to fall apart because they're not in tune with where that next generation of customers are coming from, where sustainability is going to be built versus relying on, you know, my father, your father as a customer group. Uh they're not going to be driving. You know, I mean, my dad doesn't drive anymore, period. But you know, that generation is going to stop driving. It's going to stop purchasing a lot of the things that these companies want them to purchase.
SPEAKER_01The greatest, when it comes to insurance, the greatest transfer of wealth in human history is actively happening right now between boomers and their millennial children.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_01Right. And even if the boomers live longer, and even if they stay more active, and they do. If millennials don't buy that you are a DI forward company, they are going to move that insurance to the companies that are.
SPEAKER_00Correct. Correct. Yes. Yes, indeed.
SPEAKER_01So the you the right that you're you're you're not the customer that everybody targets, right? The nationwide, uh Liberty, et cetera, state farm, et cetera, et cetera, right? The the the middle class, upper middle class, uh 2.5 kids, uh a home, maybe a vacation home and two cars, uh, who everybody wants because they're super safe and super profitable to insure, uh is going to be a millennial. Uh exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00And and you, you know, back to the topic of marketing and and and commercials and that type of thing, you're starting to see that shift also. Uh, you know, growing up, the commercial was we're gonna protect you, we're gonna save you, we're gonna uh do all the things you need to do when you have a tragedy uh in front of you. But the commercials now are geared towards uh what's your lifestyle like? Uh what's important to you, and we're gonna protect that as opposed to protecting the physical assets that are uh in front of you. So it's it it's a it's definitely a shift, like you said. The transition is there. Uh and those companies that are going to recognize it or have already recognized it, because if you haven't recognized it yet, you're behind the you're happy, you're behind the eight-ball. You know, it's hard to recover once once a customer has started to move elsewhere uh and shop elsewhere, you know, unless there's a significant price difference or a significant uh significantly bad experience with a claim. Uh loyalty is is considered it's spelled differently than it was before. Um there really isn't a lot of loyalty, especially in the insurance space. Every six months, younger people are growing because it's self-serve. You no longer have to deal with an agent. So every six months I can shop around in five minutes and see am I getting a different rate, am I getting a better rate? Um, so the consumer is a lot more educated than uh previous generations when it comes to buying insurance. And so the differentiation is, you know, and the differentiation is how is your company structured, what's their social responsibility, how do they operate, and how does it benefit me?
SPEAKER_01Uh yes to everything you said. Pretty much we are on exactly the same page. Uh we're starting to run out of time here. Uh we only have like 10 minutes left. Uh I will be joining the DI committee the moment that either you or M send me the application.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Uh why should other people join the uh join SIR and specifically join the DI committee at SIR?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I'll start with the DEI committee. It's easy to join the DAI committee. The fact that you have said it is your application, all right? As long as you're a member of SIR, there's uh there's no there's no screening process and it and it's fun because uh you know the committee has grown. Um so through what we've been trying to get accomplished and through uh word of mouth, you know, we've seen the organization, we've seen the committee actually double in size in the past three to four years. Awesome. So there are a lot of people that are in the industry that are still saying it's important to me, and I need to be part of an organization that's also saying it's important to me. Um SIR itself is a is a fun organization to belong to. And I think where people are looking for an organization that is tied to facts, tied to uh providing a good story, uh, providing uh an opportunity for people to participate in conversations across product lines. Uh it's the only organization that I know that exists that allows you all of that. Uh, you know.
SPEAKER_01The fact-based piece I want to address because I'm a longtime member of the CPCU Society. Uh I I'm very active in in a lot of other organizations within insurance, and I came late to SIR. Uh, I'm not saying the society is not fact-based, they are, uh, but SIR is made of researchers. Yes. Right? Like, like if there is a place where if I give my presentation on millennials, which before I wrote the book had a lot of iffy numbers, right? Uh, I'm sure that 16 people would very politely afterwards come to me and be and be like, look at this number. I'm not trying, right? You get what I'm saying? That's who they are, right? That's what SIR is about.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01So, yes. Uh, and and I'm really gonna enjoy uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, SIR gives a space for those that are you know not caught up in the the hype of it all, not caught up in the the marking marketing of it all. Uh a lot of your SIR members will jokingly say it's a group of nerds, but it's not. What it is is a lot thing. No, it's not, and it's another one of those things that has changed in its in its in its uh uh uh simulation. But the nice thing about SIR is it allows everyone to come in, have a voice, say what they want to say, learn what they need to learn. We share uh even the capabilities and technical skills, and we talk with vendors, you know, we share what vendors were using, that kind of thing. So I think a lot of people think that the space may be somewhere where you know you have to be cautious of what you're saying because you don't want to give away any trade secrets and those types of things. But it truly isn't that. It truly is how do I become more knowledgeable in the insurance industry? And how do I make my role stronger at the company that I'm at?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely fantastic. Uh I really every episode that we've done, I don't know how many we've done. Uh maybe six have gone out. Uh, but every episode that we've done, I I say it again and again, it's a great organization. Uh I go to 30 to 40 conferences a year. Wow. Uh and it's basically my day job is going to insurance and insurance conferences. Right. And I always try to go to the DEI session. And uh uh for the last year, and I will continue this year, even though I'm doing less conferences this year, next year I'll be back to normal. But for the last year, I I try to go to the DIA session and and like ask a question at the end of the microphone. And my question is really not a question. Uh, it is bringing attention to to part of the DIU that we're not talking about much uh at this point. Uh but um that presenting this up is I go to so many conferences, and the only membership I've had over the years, now that I'm self-employed and it's out of pocket, it's tax-deductible out of pocket. The only membership I've had over the years is my CPCU society membership, but that's where I grew up. Uh and the CPCU made my career at SIR this last time in Chicago. Uh, I think it was Mike, uh spoke and encouraged everybody to join, and it's cheap. Right? It's it's incredibly cheap. Um, and I just couldn't help myself. I immediately joined. Uh and I haven't been super active other than running the podcast, uh, but it is such a great organization. And and on on the way there, uh so I had Amelia and and uh by which names, I had two of the leaders on the podcast uh to talk about the conference. That's that's what led to me getting a media pass and going to the conference. Um and and as I was heading there, I was thinking, oh, this is gonna be an anectoral conference. What I mean by that is this is gonna be a bunch of introverted uh uh you know nerds, and I love nerds, I'm a nerd myself, but I'm an extroverted nerd, right? It's gonna be a bunch of introverted nerds, uh, and it's a small conference, so it's gonna be a bunch of introverted nerds who see each other every year, and and it's a hard group to penetrate, right? Uh, not for me, but for regular people. And I found the opposite. Yes, it is a it is a bunch of introverted and extroverted nerds, and I say that lovingly, uh, who care about insurance and are extremely welcoming. This is a great first conference. Yes, and if if your job is uh in any way, shape, or form involves research, if you're a product person, if you're an underwriter, anything like that, anything that actively involves research, you will benefit from the content, you will benefit from the connections, uh, and you'll want to come back again and again and again. And it is eminently decently like membership is cheap, uh, and your company should pay for it, but but but membership is cheap. That conference itself is eminently decently priced. Take it from me. I go to a lot of them now. Full disclaimer, I often go for free and I just pay for money on travel, but I do take a look at how much they cost, right? Uh and uh it is an incredible both like membership is a ridiculously good value for the money, and uh the conference is a really good value for the money, and also importantly, they are not obsessed with doing it in marquee cities like CPCUS. Um so so like CPCU does a good job with CPCU leadership that is in Nashville as we're speaking, and I mean it's going through extreme formal for not being there. Uh and last year was in Atlanta, and it's been it's been in San Antonio, it's been in Baltimore, it's been in Phoenix, decent cost cities, but annual meeting is always an expensive city. Uh the SIR was in Chicago last year, which is expensive but easy to get to. This year it's in Kansas City.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01I have never been to a conference in Kansas City. Uh and it's a great area, right? It is, it is a decent airport, uh, and it's the cost of living is amazing. Right. Uh so they have a tendency to do them in cities that are not uh extremely expensive and that are easy to get to. Uh yeah, I just have nothing but good things to say about SIR.
SPEAKER_00No, just a couple of things real quick before we wrap it up. You know, you mentioned uh the welcoming piece, and and to add on to why SIR is the right place to be. Um, once again, I came into a new role and everybody was reaching out and asking, did I want to participate? And you know, slow coaching it to say, you know, just join, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00The other piece that a lot of people don't realize is that as a carrier member, um the membership becomes unlimited. So, you know, for progressive, we've got hundreds of people that are members, and then with your carrier membership, you get free registrations to the conference.
SPEAKER_01So you get free membership for it for everybody who wants to have three free registrations, yes.
SPEAKER_00And so when you talked about the value proposition, it's super inexpensive to be a member of SIR for an individual, but especially for a carrier member.
SPEAKER_01Uh well, how much is the carrier membership? Uh I'm guessing it depends on the size of the carrier.
SPEAKER_00No, it doesn't. It doesn't. Um I I I can't say exactly. I can't remember how much it is. I just know it's I just know it it's it's not as much as I thought it was going to be first invoice.
SPEAKER_01It it it should be 10 grand, 50 grand, 15 grand 50 years it should be 50 grand a year, and it's still a great value. Yeah, it's definitely not that. Fantastic, fantastic. Uh Theo, thank you so much for your time. All right, Tony. Thank you. It's a pleasure to meet you.